Project Renaissance Status Update for November/December

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
6 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Project Renaissance Status Update for November/December

Frank Loehmann
Hi,

The status presentation for November/December is available at:

http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/project_renaissance_status_update_for

Find all Project Renaissance related news at: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/tags/renaissance

Feedback welcome.

Best regards,

Project Renaissance Team

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Project Renaissance Status Update for November/December

Johannes Eva
Hi Frank,

Some time ago, I posted many critical opinions on the way Renaissance
was "managed". I don't want to take them back - on the contrary, last
September I wrote a well-argumented message in the mailing list
(especially to Andreas Bartel), wich got positive feedback from people
on the mailing list, but no "official" answer:

http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=ui&msgNo=891
"Sidepanes --- Why don't be honest about it? --- Some real arguments"


Anyway, this time I just wanted to say that I liked many elements of the
current work on Impress. For example these are reall good news:
* Integrated Notes View
* Text Toolbar is new Default Context Toolbar

The "Slide Layout" and "Shapes" dropdown are also great.

As I'm not used to be only positive, here is a little suggestion: I am
worried that text almost totally disappeared from the toolbars.
There is a clear tendency in some modern software to do the contrary:
use less icons and more text. (See Windows 7, or the Office 2010 beta)

In my own case, I have difficulties to memorize a lot of icons, when
there is no text. And I know that it's not only my case!
My experience observing people shows that a vast majority DON'T hover
over icons and wait for the tooltips to appear. They simply ignore the
icons they don't know, and ask for help, or abandon, if they don't find
what they're looking for.

I think that you get my point... at the time I made my proposal I had
this ideas for text and icons in toolbars:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Johannes_Eva#14.1_More_about_toolbars

It would make it possible to display the "more important" text in small
resolutions (even the "slide show" text is lost in your presentation!),
and more and more text in higher resolutions.

Well, at first I only wanted to be positive, so let's end up with a
positive thought: your presentation shows a version which is definitely
better that the current 3.1!

All the best,
Johannes



Frank Loehmann wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The status presentation for November/December is available at:
>
> http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/project_renaissance_status_update_for
>
>
> Find all Project Renaissance related news at:
> http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/tags/renaissance
>
> Feedback welcome.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Project Renaissance Team
>


____________________________

Johannes Eva
http://www.johannes-eva.net/
____________________________


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Project Renaissance Status Update for November/December

Bernd Eilers
Johannes Eva wrote:
> Hi Frank,

Hi Johannes Eva,

> [...snip...]
> As I'm not used to be only positive, here is a little suggestion: I am
> worried that text almost totally disappeared from the toolbars.
> There is a clear tendency in some modern software to do the contrary:
> use less icons and more text. (See Windows 7, or the Office 2010 beta)
>
> In my own case, I have difficulties to memorize a lot of icons, when
> there is no text. And I know that it's not only my case!

 >[...snip...]

Ever tried the following?

Just use the context menu (right mouse click) on any of the toolbars,
than choose "Customize Toolbar..." and on the "Toolbars" TabPage use the
"Toolbar" Button to select either "Icons only", "Text only" or "Icons &
Text" to whatever you do like most. If you do not like the default of
"Icons only" well just configure the UserInterface to your preferences.

This feature has been there in OpenOffice.org since ages.

Kind regards,
Bernd Eilers


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Project Renaissance Status Update for November/December

Johannes Eva
Hi Bernd,

and thank you for your answer!
I should have said that I knew about the "Icons & Text" option.
(Though I'm not a power user, I have been using OOo since the StarOffice
4, with its integrated desktop which, in these days, I loved :-)

But the "Icons & Text" option has many flaws. The text labels are so
long (such as "Print file directly (Canon-MP450)" or "Export directly as
PDF") that even with my 1920 pixel width monitor, only half of the
elements are displayed.
It is absolutely unusable in small/medium resolutions, with the standard
toolbars. (I suppose this option is there for accessibility reasons and
for custom toolbars.)

So, I'm still convinced that it's a real step back in usability to
remove important labels such as "Slide Show" in Impress.

And also that a flexible approach for labels in toolbars, depending on
the resoution and which are the "important" labels, would be great:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Johannes_Eva#14.1_More_about_toolbars 


Best regards,
Johannes


Bernd Eilers wrote:

> Johannes Eva wrote:
>> Hi Frank,
>
> Hi Johannes Eva,
>
>> [...snip...]
>> As I'm not used to be only positive, here is a little suggestion: I am
>> worried that text almost totally disappeared from the toolbars.
>> There is a clear tendency in some modern software to do the contrary:
>> use less icons and more text. (See Windows 7, or the Office 2010 beta)
>>
>> In my own case, I have difficulties to memorize a lot of icons, when
>> there is no text. And I know that it's not only my case!
>
>  >[...snip...]
>
> Ever tried the following?
>
> Just use the context menu (right mouse click) on any of the toolbars,
> than choose "Customize Toolbar..." and on the "Toolbars" TabPage use the
> "Toolbar" Button to select either "Icons only", "Text only" or "Icons &
> Text" to whatever you do like most. If you do not like the default of
> "Icons only" well just configure the UserInterface to your preferences.
>
> This feature has been there in OpenOffice.org since ages.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bernd Eilers
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Project Renaissance Status Update for November/December

Frank Loehmann
Hi Johannes,

Am 16.12.2009 um 16:39 schrieb Johannes Eva:

> Hi Bernd,
>
> and thank you for your answer!
> I should have said that I knew about the "Icons & Text" option.
> (Though I'm not a power user, I have been using OOo since the StarOffice 4, with its integrated desktop which, in these days, I loved :-)

I have started with StarWriter 2.0 (for Windows) and StarOffice 3.0 was in development. (do not be irritated by the number, it was the first self developed version of SO :-)

>
> But the "Icons & Text" option has many flaws. The text labels are so long (such as "Print file directly (Canon-MP450)" or "Export directly as PDF") that even with my 1920 pixel width monitor, only half of the elements are displayed.

Indeed. Currently the tip helps and UI names are equal. That might become a problem if we want to use icon and text in toolbars. Furthermore you can decide to have text and icons on a toolbar basis only. Displaying the text below the icons (to save some horizontal space) should be possible but has to be implemented first. I have recently talked with Carsten Driesner about this topic.

> It is absolutely unusable in small/medium resolutions, with the standard toolbars. (I suppose this option is there for accessibility reasons and for custom toolbars.)
>
> So, I'm still convinced that it's a real step back in usability to remove important labels such as "Slide Show" in Impress.

I am also a fan of text and icons, but currently this is a problem in some languages (i.e. German) due to the limitation stated above. So no mixed toolbars are supported today. If we just add another button to that toolbar we will run out of space in our standard resolution (1024*768).
 
>
> And also that a flexible approach for labels in toolbars, depending on the resoution and which are the "important" labels, would be great:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Johannes_Eva#14.1_More_about_toolbars 

The UI should be flexible to make best use of available screen real estate, even if this is kind of magic that might confuse users due to changing positions and appearance.

>
> Best regards,
> Johannes

Best regards,

Frank

>
>
> Bernd Eilers wrote:
>> Johannes Eva wrote:
>>> Hi Frank,
>> Hi Johannes Eva,
>>> [...snip...]
>>> As I'm not used to be only positive, here is a little suggestion: I am worried that text almost totally disappeared from the toolbars.
>>> There is a clear tendency in some modern software to do the contrary: use less icons and more text. (See Windows 7, or the Office 2010 beta)
>>>
>>> In my own case, I have difficulties to memorize a lot of icons, when there is no text. And I know that it's not only my case!
>> >[...snip...]
>> Ever tried the following?
>> Just use the context menu (right mouse click) on any of the toolbars, than choose "Customize Toolbar..." and on the "Toolbars" TabPage use the "Toolbar" Button to select either "Icons only", "Text only" or "Icons & Text" to whatever you do like most. If you do not like the default of "Icons only" well just configure the UserInterface to your preferences.
>> This feature has been there in OpenOffice.org since ages.
>> Kind regards,
>> Bernd Eilers
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Project Renaissance Status Update for November/December

Frank Loehmann
In reply to this post by Johannes Eva
Hi Johannes,

Am 16.12.2009 um 11:17 schrieb Johannes Eva:

> Hi Frank,
>
> Some time ago, I posted many critical opinions on the way Renaissance was "managed". I don't want to take them back - on the contrary, last September I wrote a well-argumented message in the mailing list (especially to Andreas Bartel), which got positive feedback from people on the mailing list, but no "official" answer:
>
> http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=ui&msgNo=891
> "Sidepanes --- Why don't be honest about it? --- Some real arguments"

We received so many comments in August and September and I was about to leave for a month. That was why I have posted an answer blog to address the most comments right before I left:

Feedback on Feedback: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_user_interface

> Anyway, this time I just wanted to say that I liked many elements of the current work on Impress. For example these are reall good news:
> * Integrated Notes View
> * Text Toolbar is new Default Context Toolbar

There are many more to come :-)

>
> The "Slide Layout" and "Shapes" dropdown are also great.

This allows us to hide the Tasks side pane by default to save some real estate for editing. Furthermore this important interaction (proven by user feedback data) can be accessed from the menu and context menu.

>
> As I'm not used to be only positive, here is a little suggestion: I am worried that text almost totally disappeared from the toolbars.
> There is a clear tendency in some modern software to do the contrary: use less icons and more text. (See Windows 7, or the Office 2010 beta)
>
> In my own case, I have difficulties to memorize a lot of icons, when there is no text. And I know that it's not only my case!
> My experience observing people shows that a vast majority DON'T hover over icons and wait for the tooltips to appear. They simply ignore the icons they don't know, and ask for help, or abandon, if they don't find what they're looking for.
>
> I think that you get my point... at the time I made my proposal I had this ideas for text and icons in toolbars:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Proposal_by_Johannes_Eva#14.1_More_about_toolbars
>
I have already answered this very valid point in a separate mail.
 
> It would make it possible to display the "more important" text in small resolutions (even the "slide show" text is lost in your presentation!), and more and more text in higher resolutions.
>
> Well, at first I only wanted to be positive, so let's end up with a positive thought: your presentation shows a version which is definitely better that the current 3.1!

We will keep you all informed about what is going on towards OOo 3.3.

Feedback welcome (as always).
>
> All the best,
> Johannes

Best regards,

Frank

>
>
>
> Frank Loehmann wrote:
>> Hi,
>> The status presentation for November/December is available at:
>> http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/project_renaissance_status_update_for
>> Find all Project Renaissance related news at:
>> http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/tags/renaissance
>> Feedback welcome.
>> Best regards,
>> Project Renaissance Team
>
>
> ____________________________
>
> Johannes Eva
> http://www.johannes-eva.net/
> ____________________________
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]