Impress Prototype Window Navigation

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Impress Prototype Window Navigation

Jaron Kuppers
Hi all,

I was just playing around with an idea this morning for using the "Expose"
like navigation of slides for open Windows as well (since I see people with
lots of windows open pretty often).  Additionally, I was playing with the
idea of implementing a split screen through that user interface.

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_1.png
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_2.png

This is not meant to be any comment or influence on the prototype, just a
brainstorm I had...

Cheers,
Jaron
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Re: Impress Prototype Window Navigation

Martin Hanzel
And why not implement a tabbed document interface while we're at it? Save
taskbar real estate, people!

-Martin


On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I was just playing around with an idea this morning for using the "Expose"
> like navigation of slides for open Windows as well (since I see people with
> lots of windows open pretty often).  Additionally, I was playing with the
> idea of implementing a split screen through that user interface.
>
>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_1.png
>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_2.png
>
> This is not meant to be any comment or influence on the prototype, just a
> brainstorm I had...
>
> Cheers,
> Jaron
>
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Re: Impress Prototype Window Navigation

Jaron Kuppers
I have nothing against tabs, in fact I am a big advocate of them, but
brainstorming different ideas is helpful too.  We shouldn't limit ourselves
to one idea...

Cheers,
Jaron



On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Martin Hanzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And why not implement a tabbed document interface while we're at it? Save
> taskbar real estate, people!
>
> -Martin
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was just playing around with an idea this morning for using the
> "Expose"
> > like navigation of slides for open Windows as well (since I see people
> with
> > lots of windows open pretty often).  Additionally, I was playing with the
> > idea of implementing a split screen through that user interface.
> >
> >
> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_1.png
> >
> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_2.png
> >
> > This is not meant to be any comment or influence on the prototype, just a
> > brainstorm I had...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jaron
> >
>
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Re: Impress Prototype Window Navigation

Martin Hanzel
Do you have a better idea to manage windows? Tabs are the only usable
alternative I've come up with so far...

-Martin


On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have nothing against tabs, in fact I am a big advocate of them, but
> brainstorming different ideas is helpful too.  We shouldn't limit ourselves
> to one idea...
>
> Cheers,
> Jaron
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Martin Hanzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > And why not implement a tabbed document interface while we're at it? Save
> > taskbar real estate, people!
> >
> > -Martin
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I was just playing around with an idea this morning for using the
> > "Expose"
> > > like navigation of slides for open Windows as well (since I see people
> > with
> > > lots of windows open pretty often).  Additionally, I was playing with
> the
> > > idea of implementing a split screen through that user interface.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_1.png
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_2.png
> > >
> > > This is not meant to be any comment or influence on the prototype, just
> a
> > > brainstorm I had...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Jaron
> > >
> >
>
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Re: Impress Prototype Window Navigation

Christoph Noack-4
Hi Jaron,

that is a nice idea - from my point of view brainstorming is allowed
anytime :-) Did you know that the Firefox guys did a proposal collection
for managing "Tabs"? Maybe there some more ideas, too.

http://design-challenge.mozilla.com/summer09

By the way, the pages and the organization of the design challenge are
really cool! If we would have more resources :-)

Bye,
Christoph

Am Samstag, den 25.07.2009, 10:43 +0200 schrieb Martin Hanzel:

> Do you have a better idea to manage windows? Tabs are the only usable
> alternative I've come up with so far...
>
> -Martin
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I have nothing against tabs, in fact I am a big advocate of them, but
> > brainstorming different ideas is helpful too.  We shouldn't limit ourselves
> > to one idea...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jaron
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Martin Hanzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > And why not implement a tabbed document interface while we're at it? Save
> > > taskbar real estate, people!
> > >
> > > -Martin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I was just playing around with an idea this morning for using the
> > > "Expose"
> > > > like navigation of slides for open Windows as well (since I see people
> > > with
> > > > lots of windows open pretty often).  Additionally, I was playing with
> > the
> > > > idea of implementing a split screen through that user interface.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_1.png
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_2.png
> > > >
> > > > This is not meant to be any comment or influence on the prototype, just
> > a
> > > > brainstorm I had...
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Jaron
> > > >
> > >
> >


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Re: Impress Prototype Window Navigation

Jaron Kuppers
Hi Christoph,

I did not know about that design challenge.  It was quite interesting to
watch and may help inspire us to create a better way to navigate open
documents.

Partially just to organize my own thoughts, a few key differences I see
between web content and "office" content navigation are the following:

- Document titles (and metadata) convey more information than web addresses.
That is to say, "mail.gmail.com/mail/?hl=en..." lets me know I am at gmail
and generally the remainder of the address is unimportant, while "Document
name_07/22/09_v1-1.odf" conveys a significant amount of information.

- Visual cues for navigation may be more subtle with documents.
Webpages tend to be quite colorful and easier to distinguish while documents
and spreadsheets tend to be less so.  Additionally, two versions of a
document may differ only textually, and therefore may look indistinguishable
visually.

- There are no clearly distinguished "Power users" of office suites that are
likely to have many open documents.
The average office worker may be plagued by 20-30 open documents but does
not have the navigation skills of a web content "Power user."  Therefore our
solution must cater to a greater audience than the web browsing solutions.

Nonetheless, I think that anyone who has a spare minute or two should check
out the winners.  Very cool ideas.
It would be nice to see some of the time-line features integrated into OOo,
such as when you opened the files, when you saved them (or created new
versions) and it would be super awesome if the time-lines conveyed when
other user's had edited the files.

Have a nice weekend everyone!

Cheers,
Jaron


On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 7:14 AM, Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi Jaron,
>
> that is a nice idea - from my point of view brainstorming is allowed
> anytime :-) Did you know that the Firefox guys did a proposal collection
> for managing "Tabs"? Maybe there some more ideas, too.
>
> http://design-challenge.mozilla.com/summer09
>
> By the way, the pages and the organization of the design challenge are
> really cool! If we would have more resources :-)
>
> Bye,
> Christoph
>
> Am Samstag, den 25.07.2009, 10:43 +0200 schrieb Martin Hanzel:
> > Do you have a better idea to manage windows? Tabs are the only usable
> > alternative I've come up with so far...
> >
> > -Martin
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I have nothing against tabs, in fact I am a big advocate of them, but
> > > brainstorming different ideas is helpful too.  We shouldn't limit
> ourselves
> > > to one idea...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Jaron
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Martin Hanzel <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > And why not implement a tabbed document interface while we're at it?
> Save
> > > > taskbar real estate, people!
> > > >
> > > > -Martin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I was just playing around with an idea this morning for using the
> > > > "Expose"
> > > > > like navigation of slides for open Windows as well (since I see
> people
> > > > with
> > > > > lots of windows open pretty often).  Additionally, I was playing
> with
> > > the
> > > > > idea of implementing a split screen through that user interface.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_1.png
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_2.png
> > > > >
> > > > > This is not meant to be any comment or influence on the prototype,
> just
> > > a
> > > > > brainstorm I had...
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Jaron
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
>
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Re: Impress Prototype Window Navigation

Jaron Kuppers
In reply to this post by Martin Hanzel
Hi Martin,

I can think of a variety of ways to manage windows, including the one I
posted at the start of this list (an array) which is conceptually similar to
other navigation tools I have seen (ie operating systems which use spaced
icons in their folder navigation).  There are also vertical lists (which
some people disguise as side-tabs), trees, radial menus/lists and others.

Tabs fail as a good management tool after too many get opened which is
likely why Mozilla had the summer competition.  Please understand, I think
tabs are a great organizational tool; I proposed some design concepts on the
ux-discuss list for using drag-and-drop features integrated with tabs to
control features like split-screens and document view clones (essentially
different views of the same document).  I am sure that when the time comes
we to consider document navigation that some interesting ideas will be
presented.

Perhaps it would help that I mention my proposal focused on keeping the same
navigation concepts as the prototype.  Imagine if when "zooming out" the
user zooms out past just the document slides to the "document" level and
sees all his/her open documents instead of the slides.  Something
conceptually similar to the design of the XO laptop's operating system.  I
was also thinking about (but didn't add) having color coded areas the user
could drag documents into to organize by task.  The tasks could then be
integrated into other navigation features, such as saving and opening all
documents in a task (a feature I think users would adore!).

Cheers,
Jaron


On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Martin Hanzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Do you have a better idea to manage windows? Tabs are the only usable
> alternative I've come up with so far...
>
> -Martin
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I have nothing against tabs, in fact I am a big advocate of them, but
> > brainstorming different ideas is helpful too.  We shouldn't limit
> ourselves
> > to one idea...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jaron
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Martin Hanzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > And why not implement a tabbed document interface while we're at it?
> Save
> > > taskbar real estate, people!
> > >
> > > -Martin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I was just playing around with an idea this morning for using the
> > > "Expose"
> > > > like navigation of slides for open Windows as well (since I see
> people
> > > with
> > > > lots of windows open pretty often).  Additionally, I was playing with
> > the
> > > > idea of implementing a split screen through that user interface.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_1.png
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_2.png
> > > >
> > > > This is not meant to be any comment or influence on the prototype,
> just
> > a
> > > > brainstorm I had...
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Jaron
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: Impress Prototype Window Navigation

Andreas Schuderer
Hi Jaron,

Am 25. Jul 2009 um 19:28 schrieb Jaron Kuppers:
> Imagine if when "zooming out" the
> user zooms out past just the document slides to the "document" level  
> and
> sees all his/her open documents instead of the slides.  Something
> conceptually similar to the design of the XO laptop's operating  
> system.

...and Raskin's interpretation of a Zooming User Interface.

> I was also thinking about (but didn't add) having color coded areas  
> the user
> could drag documents into to organize by task.  The tasks could then  
> be
> integrated into other navigation features, such as saving and  
> opening all
> documents in a task (a feature I think users would adore!).

This sounds nice. It's practically the idea of file tagging, but  
expanded for open documents. That's what I try to do with Spaces  
(distributing windows over multiple screens) on my system. But  
unfortunately the reality of work often thwarts my attempts of  
organizing my applications/documents by task (on screen and on disc).  
More often than not, I'm in a hurry and don't have the discipline to  
go the extra length to tag something or assign it the "proper" space.

If the system would only be able to recognize tasks by itself...

In an earlier mail today, you wrote on a related matter:

Am 25. Jul 2009 um 19:05 schrieb Jaron Kuppers:
> It would be nice to see some of the time-line features integrated  
> into OOo,
> such as when you opened the files, when you saved them (or created new
> versions) and it would be super awesome if the time-lines conveyed  
> when
> other user's had edited the files.


This also reminds me of how XO OS "saves files" (it actually makes  
snapshots of work states in the "Journal"). You mainly navigate back  
through history, aided by optional tags. A timeline alone can be very  
powerful for navigation. [1]

But, alas, it would have to be system-wide in order to be really  
effective. That's also the reason why I'm against tabs in OOo. On the  
Mac, OOo tabs would make document-switching much less efficient than  
it is now (using Exposé or CMD-<). Let the OS manufacturers deal with  
the problem of window management.

[1] @all: If you haven't yet, go ahead and read the XO (One Laptop Per  
Child) Interface Guidelines. Actually, they're not guidelines, but the  
document explains the whats and whys of the interface. I particularly  
like the ideas about dealing with persistence without file names (or  
other kinds of enforced content administration which would get in the  
way of being creative).
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Human_Interface_Guidelines

[I've also got criticism: The half-hearted zooming interface, the one-
dimensional "activity = application" simplification and the overly  
pointer-centric icon-clicking interface. Another possible criticism  
could be that the system isn't content-centered, but activity-
centered. But as this is system primarily intended for learning, for  
producing content, this criticism is probably invalid.]


> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Martin Hanzel <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
>
>> Do you have a better idea to manage windows? Tabs are the only usable
>> alternative I've come up with so far...
>>
>> -Martin
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have nothing against tabs, in fact I am a big advocate of them,  
>>> but
>>> brainstorming different ideas is helpful too.  We shouldn't limit
>> ourselves
>>> to one idea...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jaron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Martin Hanzel <[hidden email]>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And why not implement a tabbed document interface while we're at  
>>>> it?
>> Save
>>>> taskbar real estate, people!
>>>>
>>>> -Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]
>>>> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was just playing around with an idea this morning for using the
>>>> "Expose"
>>>>> like navigation of slides for open Windows as well (since I see
>> people
>>>> with
>>>>> lots of windows open pretty often).  Additionally, I was playing  
>>>>> with
>>> the
>>>>> idea of implementing a split screen through that user interface.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_1.png
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_2.png
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not meant to be any comment or influence on the prototype,
>> just
>>> a
>>>>> brainstorm I had...
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jaron
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>


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Re: Impress Prototype Window Navigation

Martin Hanzel
In reply to this post by Jaron Kuppers
You're right that tabs have their drawbacks. Perhaps we don't need to even display tabs in the window. And idea that I had was to use a similar 'Slide' interface that shows all of your open documents when you press a button (zooming out wouldn't make much sense in, say, a multi-page document or  slideshow), similar to IE's feature (I forget what it's called, but it's the button to the left of the tabs). You can also quickly  skip to the next or previous document using a keyboard shortcut or buton in the status bar, with a custom transition.
 
Or what about Cover flow? Would that be viable in this situation?
 
And I second your idea about 'tasks'. That seems like a good reason to implement the multiple document feature as well
 
Here is a sketch of the document switchy thing:
 
|-OpenOffice.org---------------------------------------------- _ O X|
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|                        |-Ctrl-TAB------|                          |
|                        |---------\     | <'Wave' picture          |
|                        |..........\    |                          |
|         Open document> |Letters.odt\   |                          |
|                        |''''''''''' -- |                          |
|       Other documents> |Document.odt  \|                          |
|                        |Words.odt      |                          |
|                        |---------------|                          |
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|                                                                   |
|  Quick Switch                                                     |
|  |                                                                |
|  V                                                                |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
| < Document.odt | status | status | -----o----- 100% | Words.odt > |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
 
 
P.S. Would each open document have its own process?

-Martin


On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Martin,

I can think of a variety of ways to manage windows, including the one I
posted at the start of this list (an array) which is conceptually similar to
other navigation tools I have seen (ie operating systems which use spaced
icons in their folder navigation).  There are also vertical lists (which
some people disguise as side-tabs), trees, radial menus/lists and others.

Tabs fail as a good management tool after too many get opened which is
likely why Mozilla had the summer competition.  Please understand, I think
tabs are a great organizational tool; I proposed some design concepts on the
ux-discuss list for using drag-and-drop features integrated with tabs to
control features like split-screens and document view clones (essentially
different views of the same document).  I am sure that when the time comes
we to consider document navigation that some interesting ideas will be
presented.

Perhaps it would help that I mention my proposal focused on keeping the same
navigation concepts as the prototype.  Imagine if when "zooming out" the
user zooms out past just the document slides to the "document" level and
sees all his/her open documents instead of the slides.  Something
conceptually similar to the design of the XO laptop's operating system.  I
was also thinking about (but didn't add) having color coded areas the user
could drag documents into to organize by task.  The tasks could then be
integrated into other navigation features, such as saving and opening all
documents in a task (a feature I think users would adore!).

Cheers,
Jaron


On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Martin Hanzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Do you have a better idea to manage windows? Tabs are the only usable
> alternative I've come up with so far...
>
> -Martin
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I have nothing against tabs, in fact I am a big advocate of them, but
> > brainstorming different ideas is helpful too.  We shouldn't limit
> ourselves
> > to one idea...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jaron
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Martin Hanzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > And why not implement a tabbed document interface while we're at it?
> Save
> > > taskbar real estate, people!
> > >
> > > -Martin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Jaron Kuppers <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I was just playing around with an idea this morning for using the
> > > "Expose"
> > > > like navigation of slides for open Windows as well (since I see
> people
> > > with
> > > > lots of windows open pretty often).  Additionally, I was playing with
> > the
> > > > idea of implementing a split screen through that user interface.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_1.png
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Prototype_window_navigator_2.png
> > > >
> > > > This is not meant to be any comment or influence on the prototype,
> just
> > a
> > > > brainstorm I had...
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Jaron
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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Re: Impress Prototype Window Navigation

Bernd Eilers
Martin Hanzel wrote:
> [... snip ....]
>  
> P.S. Would each open document have its own process?
>

Currently that´s not the case. But there have been ideas floating around
to do something like this to enhance overall stability for a long time.

> -Martin
>
>

Kind regards,
Bernd Eilers

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