FLUX - Left Sidebar

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FLUX - Left Sidebar

Joshua Martin
As an example of how we can try to eliminate pop up menus from distracting
our attention away from the document, I've attached a screenshot of how the
zoom pop up window can be eliminate and the feature nestled over on the left
sidebar (remember, these are static options)

Where a user was once required to stop editing, click a button, make his
selection, click ok, and then "repeat if necessary"... He now only has to
glide his mouse over to the zoom button on the left sidebar and either click
or hover over the button; a small menu will be revealed where he can make
the selection. Here it would be appropriate to use a "live style" feature
like that one used in MS Office 2007 - as a user scrolls over the choices,
the choices will be automatically selected and the selection would take
place. It's called live, because it changes as you scroll and if you leave
the choice it no longer applies - you must click the choice to make it
permanent.


http://sites.google.com/site/fluxuserinterface/features-replaced-with-flux

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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Stefan Weigel
Hi,

Joshua Martin schrieb:

> Where a user was once required to stop editing, click a button, make his
> selection, click ok, and then "repeat if necessary"...

Is there anybody out there, who handles zooming in OOo like this?

> He now only has to
> glide his mouse over to the zoom button on the left sidebar and either click
> or hover over the button; a small menu will be revealed where he can make
> the selection.

Is there anything bad about the possibilities, that we already have?
One can either use CTRL+mousewheel, which is common to almost every
  office application, web browser and so on, no matter who made the
software (Sun, MS, Mozilla, Adobe, ...). Or one can use the zoom
glider in the status bar.

Just wondering...
Stefan

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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Clément Pillias
Hi,

Le 27 déc. 08 à 20:22, Stefan Weigel a écrit :

> Joshua Martin schrieb:
>
>> Where a user was once required to stop editing, click a button,  
>> make his selection, click ok, and then "repeat if necessary"...
>
> Is there anybody out there, who handles zooming in OOo like this?

Every newbie?

>> He now only has to glide his mouse over to the zoom button on the  
>> left sidebar and either click or hover over the button; a small  
>> menu will be revealed where he can make the selection.
>
> Is there anything bad about the possibilities, that we already  
> have? One can either use CTRL+mousewheel, which is common to almost  
> every  office application, web browser and so on, no matter who  
> made the software (Sun, MS, Mozilla, Adobe, ...). Or one can use  
> the zoom glider in the status bar.

First, not everybody has a mouse wheel (think to old laptops), nor  
the reflex to use it (I know a lot of people who never think about  
using it).

Second, mouse wheel actions are often badly managed in terms of  
context: Some actions, that should be available whatever the position  
of the mouse is (except if there is under the pointer something that  
is sensible to that action in a special way), are restricted to some  
areas. E.g., zooming and scrolling are restricted to the area  
displaying the page in Firefox on mac.

Third, ctrl+mouse wheel is in mac os X an operating system feature  
aimed at accessibility, and zooms the whole screen, not the page  
inside the window.

Fourth, I suspect that CTRL+mouse wheel is really an advanced user  
feature, and that most basic users don't even have heard about it (I  
did not.) Or it is specific to some OS (windows?).

Cheers,

Clément.
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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Clément Pillias
In reply to this post by Joshua Martin

Le 26 déc. 08 à 17:46, Joshua Martin a écrit :

> As an example of how we can try to eliminate pop up menus from  
> distracting our attention away from the document, I've attached a  
> screenshot of how the zoom pop up window can be eliminate and the  
> feature nestled over on the left sidebar (remember, these are  
> static options)

You may be interested by the concept of "control menu", if you don't  
already know it:

http://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~elc/zomit/

This could allow one to set the zoom level in one single gesture. And  
in expert mode, it could help to avoid the display of menu choices  
over the area of interest...

Cheers,

Clément.
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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Stefan Weigel
In reply to this post by Clément Pillias
Hi Clément,

Clément Pillias schrieb:

>> Is there anybody out there, who handles zooming in OOo like this?
>
> Every newbie?

Wouldn´t a newbies eye immediately catch the zoom glider?

> Fourth, I suspect that CTRL+mouse wheel is really an advanced user
> feature, and that most basic users don't even have heard about it (I did
> not.)

Come on, all our kids in elementary school use the wheel. They found
out by themselves or told each other. You cannot seriously try and
improve usability features if you are not aware of the state of the art.

Anyway.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you are wrong. Who knows.

Therefore I would really suggest to wait for the results of the
research, which is the first phase of "Rennaissance", before
starting any design now.

;-)

Cheers,
Stefan

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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Clément Pillias

Hi Stefan,

Le 27 déc. 08 à 21:25, Stefan Weigel a écrit :

> Wouldn´t a newbies eye immediately catch the zoom glider?

They will certainly, but, you know... the habits taken from old  
versions or other suites... ;)

I also believe that a lot of people simply ignore the status bar.

But this was not the point of this thread. The example chosen by  
Joshua might be wrong, it is still an example of how we can replace a  
dialog by an interactor that don't break the workflow.

Cheers,

Clément.
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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Joshua Martin
It is a perfectly viable solution to include a zoom slider in the status bar
and a zoom "pull out" on the left sidebar.

I would probably prefer using the zoom slider myself - but it's good idea to
add the pull out button just as another way of doing things.

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zoom slider and status bar

Graham Perrin
Administrator
On 28 Dec 2008, at 00:12, Joshua Martin wrote:

> It is a perfectly viable solution to include a zoom slider in the  
> status bar and a zoom "pull out" on the left sidebar.

I would like a zoom slider somewhere other than the status bar.

I would like there to be, by default, no status bar. Maybe have it as  
an option.

If a status bar is optional, have it somewhere other than the foot of  
the window. Seriously, most people I know take no notice of the foot  
of the window. They look up, towards the head.

Long before the FLUX discussions began, before I joined UX, I wished  
for the zoom slider (an action, not a status) to appear high within a  
word processor window.

> I would probably prefer using the zoom slider myself

+1


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Re: zoom slider and status bar

Clément Pillias

Le 28 déc. 08 à 01:21, Graham Perrin a écrit :

> I would like a zoom slider somewhere other than the status bar.

+1

> I would like there to be, by default, no status bar. Maybe have it  
> as an option.

+1

> If a status bar is optional, have it somewhere other than the foot  
> of the window. Seriously, most people I know take no notice of the  
> foot of the window. They look up, towards the head.

+1

So it make a total of +3 :)

Regards,

Clément.
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avoiding hardware-specific descriptions of actions

Graham Perrin
Administrator
In reply to this post by Clément Pillias
On 27 Dec 2008, at 19:46, Clément Pillias wrote:

Third, ctrl+mouse wheel is in mac os X an operating system feature aimed at accessibility, and zooms the whole screen, not the page inside the window.
Comparing the Mac OS X default for laptops

with my own preference

I would not have strayed from the system default
    control + two fingers
to a more acceptable
    command + two fingers
without good cause, and generally speaking I only stray from defaults when a conflict occurs.

Whilst I can't recall the nature of the conflict, that might be an early warning sign concerning some application's use or mis-use of the control key.

Fourth, I suspect that CTRL+mouse wheel is really an advanced user feature, and that most basic users don't even have heard about it (I did not.) Or it is specific to some OS (windows?).
IMHO things do become confusing when hardware-specific assumptions are made.

A number of laptops are without wheels, et cetera.

I recall a forum in which I recently heard, for the first time ever, reference to a 'middle-click': <http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/forum/topic/middle-click-7025#13>. Quoting selectively from that long thread:

>> the many differences (not just a Mac/Windows thing) make me tend towards
>> "contextual menu" as a commonly understood expression

Contextual menu ... does that sound OK to people?
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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Sébastien Just
In reply to this post by Clément Pillias
Hi,

some answers from learning curses, I noticed that :

    * people don't know about zooming with the mouse wheel, in any
      application ( neither Firefox, neither Office ). Around 5% do, 95%
      don't.
    * people don't look at the status bar, they don't even notice it,
      even when it changes , so it is useless to put something there.
      Only users who experienced Adobe products do.
    * as with CTRL+mouse , CTRL is a modifier key that people don't
      understand. Some of them know about CTRL+C / CTRL+V , rare CTRL+S
      . The rest is unknown for any standard user. Only experienced
      users use CTRL
      as an example, we failed in building a web application because
      people don't know you can multiple-select in a multi-select box
      with CTRL .
    * mouse wheel is only understood by users as a scrolling feature.
    * the only way people do zooming is
          o the menu ,
          o or the zoom combobox in the toolbar . Note that the zoom
            combobox in the toolbar is used only if there is a Zoom icon
            next to it, otherwise users don't touch it .

The best way still is to provide an icon + text with popup window for
zooming.

Sorry but I can't give stats about zooming in OpenOffice 3.0 since no
teaching has been done yet. But I can already tell that they can't
understand the status bar slider, they even can't see it at all.

Sébastien JUST

Le 27.12.2008 20:46, Clément Pillias a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> Le 27 déc. 08 à 20:22, Stefan Weigel a écrit :
>
>> Joshua Martin schrieb:
>>
>>> Where a user was once required to stop editing, click a button, make
>>> his selection, click ok, and then "repeat if necessary"...
>>
>> Is there anybody out there, who handles zooming in OOo like this?
>
> Every newbie?
>
>>> He now only has to glide his mouse over to the zoom button on the
>>> left sidebar and either click or hover over the button; a small menu
>>> will be revealed where he can make the selection.
>>
>> Is there anything bad about the possibilities, that we already have?
>> One can either use CTRL+mousewheel, which is common to almost every  
>> office application, web browser and so on, no matter who made the
>> software (Sun, MS, Mozilla, Adobe, ...). Or one can use the zoom
>> glider in the status bar.
>
> First, not everybody has a mouse wheel (think to old laptops), nor the
> reflex to use it (I know a lot of people who never think about using it).
>
> Second, mouse wheel actions are often badly managed in terms of
> context: Some actions, that should be available whatever the position
> of the mouse is (except if there is under the pointer something that
> is sensible to that action in a special way), are restricted to some
> areas. E.g., zooming and scrolling are restricted to the area
> displaying the page in Firefox on mac.
>
> Third, ctrl+mouse wheel is in mac os X an operating system feature
> aimed at accessibility, and zooms the whole screen, not the page
> inside the window.
>
> Fourth, I suspect that CTRL+mouse wheel is really an advanced user
> feature, and that most basic users don't even have heard about it (I
> did not.) Or it is specific to some OS (windows?).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Clément.
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Philip Ganchev
In reply to this post by Clément Pillias
On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Clément Pillias
<[hidden email]> wrote:
...
> You may be interested by the concept of "control menu", if you don't already
> know it:
>
> http://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~elc/zomit/

That is really interesting! It's too bad that the demo does not work (for me).

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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Clément Pillias

Hi Philip and everybody,

First, I wish a very Happy New Year to all !

Le 31 déc. 08 à 20:59, Philip Ganchev a écrit :

> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Clément Pillias
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
>> You may be interested by the concept of "control menu", if you  
>> don't already know it:
>>
>> http://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~elc/zomit/
>
> That is really interesting! It's too bad that the demo does not  
> work (for me).

Yes, I'm sorry. I did not check the links, and most of them are  
broken (this stuff is 10 years old!). You can still find some videos  
on this page:

http://www.infres.enst.fr/~elc/zomit/zomit-net/more.html

Maybe this one is a good example:

http://www.infres.enst.fr/~elc/zomit/zomit-net/ihm-hci-2001/ihm- 
hci-2001_fichiers/clip-menu2.avi

Regards,

Clément.
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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Sébastien Just
Hi,

Happy New Year to all of you !

You can see a live example of something near on songza.
http://www.songza.com

Click on a song name to see the menu appear.

Regard,

Sébastien Just

Le 01.01.2009 14:50, Clément Pillias a écrit :

>
> Hi Philip and everybody,
>
> First, I wish a very Happy New Year to all !
>
> Le 31 déc. 08 à 20:59, Philip Ganchev a écrit :
>
>> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Clément Pillias
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> ...
>>> You may be interested by the concept of "control menu", if you don't
>>> already know it:
>>>
>>> http://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~elc/zomit/
>>
>> That is really interesting! It's too bad that the demo does not work
>> (for me).
>
> Yes, I'm sorry. I did not check the links, and most of them are broken
> (this stuff is 10 years old!). You can still find some videos on this
> page:
>
> http://www.infres.enst.fr/~elc/zomit/zomit-net/more.html
>
> Maybe this one is a good example:
>
> http://www.infres.enst.fr/~elc/zomit/zomit-net/ihm-hci-2001/ihm-hci-2001_fichiers/clip-menu2.avi 
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Clément.
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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Clément Pillias
Salut Sébastien,

Le 1 janv. 09 à 18:08, Sébastien Just a écrit :

> You can see a live example of something near on songza. http://
> www.songza.com
>
> Click on a song name to see the menu appear.

Actually, Songza's menu seems to be only a good old pie menu, with  
rectangular menus or palettes as sub-menus. And you have to click on  
the item to select it.

In control menus, the menu appears a few tenth of seconds after you  
have clicked (and maintained the mouse button pressed), and the menu  
items are selected by dragging the mouse pointer outside the menu. If  
you release the button, the menu close.

The interesting property of 'control menus' is that once the item in  
the menu is selected (e.g. 'pan' or 'zoom'), you can *control* the  
parameter of that action with the same gesture (which end by  
releasing the mouse button). E.g., once you have selected 'zoom', you  
control the zoom factor as if your were dragging a scrollbar. In  
expert mode, you don't wait for the menu to appear, so that there is  
only a simple mouse gesture to do.

Regards,

Clément.
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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Mathias Michel
Hi Clément and all,

2009/1/1 Clément Pillias <[hidden email]>

> Salut Sébastien,
>
> Le 1 janv. 09 à 18:08, Sébastien Just a écrit :
>
>  You can see a live example of something near on songza. http://
>> www.songza.com
>>
>> Click on a song name to see the menu appear.
>>
>
> Actually, Songza's menu seems to be only a good old pie menu, with
> rectangular menus or palettes as sub-menus. And you have to click on the
> item to select it.
>
> In control menus, the menu appears a few tenth of seconds after you have
> clicked (and maintained the mouse button pressed), and the menu items are
> selected by dragging the mouse pointer outside the menu. If you release the
> button, the menu close.
>
> The interesting property of 'control menus' is that once the item in the
> menu is selected (e.g. 'pan' or 'zoom'), you can *control* the parameter of
> that action with the same gesture (which end by releasing the mouse button).
> E.g., once you have selected 'zoom', you control the zoom factor as if your
> were dragging a scrollbar. In expert mode, you don't wait for the menu to
> appear, so that there is only a simple mouse gesture to do.
>
Take into account "hard-mousers" like my father on its notebook. Keeping the
button pressed while moving the cursor with the touchpad will be a hard time
for him. It will be even harder if he does not really know which option he
will choose (For something other than zoom, btw). My father will prefer to
click once, see the listing appeared, choose its entry, then select and
click for the final action.
My 2 cents.
Mathias
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Re: FLUX - Left Sidebar

Clément Pillias
Hi Mathias (or Michel?),

Le 5 janv. 09 à 01:03, Mathias Michel a écrit :

> Take into account "hard-mousers" like my father on its notebook.  
> Keeping the button pressed while moving the cursor with the  
> touchpad will be a hard time for him.

You're right that it is a valid concern. But please notice that I was  
not suggesting to use that particular implementation, but rather to  
take inspiration from it.

Moreover, the current zoom slider has the same issue.

> It will be even harder if he does not really know which option he
> will choose (For something other than zoom, btw).

Why?

> My father will prefer to click once, see the listing appeared,  
> choose its entry, then select and click for the final action.

The question is then: is there a way to implement the ideas of  
"selection+control in one single gesture" and "expert mode" in a way  
that does not destabilize too much the non-expert and is compatible  
with most hardware configuration? The answer certainly depend on the  
context.

In the particular case of the zoomer, I would like to show how taking  
care of "selection+control" and "expert mode" can lead to some  
suggestions to improve the efficiency of the zoom slider.

Currently, this slider provides less options than the "View > Zoom…"  
dialog:
   * it is harder to set a fixed zoom value, such as 200%
   * there is no "adapt to width" setting
   * there is no "optimal" setting.
The two remaining settings, "100%" and "adapt to width and height"  
are available by (unlabeled) little marks allowing snapping. This is  
a case of interaction where control (of the zoom factor) and  
selection (of a particular value of interest) are mixed.

But it could be made more efficient, here are some drawbacks of the  
implementation:
   * we can't put all options of the "View > Zoom" dialog in the  
slider, because some marks (such as those corresponding to "adapt to  
width" and "optimal") would be hard to distinguish (not far enough  
from each other).
   * selection of one of the particular values "100%" or "adapt to  
width and height" needs to put the slider in a small area (a few  
pixels wide). So, according to Fitt's Law, it is a hard task, despite  
snapping.

Here is an enhancement that I will call the "gear stick metaphor"  
because it reminds me how a gear stick has a natural tendency to  
select one of the car's gears, while still be easy to learn because  
of the "shift pattern":
   * When the user starts dragging the slider handle, display the  
labels of the different options ("100%", "width", "height",  
"optimal"), half of them below the slider, half of them above it (so  
that none will overlap). Add little marks in the corresponding side  
of the slider (bellow or above). This is to emulate the "shift pattern".
   * Always use the same side for a given option (e.g.: "100%" will  
always be above the slider) so that the user can remember it.
   * Automatically snap the handle when it pass by one the marks, but  
stop the snapping if the house is clearly on the opposite size of the  
slider than the label (so that the user can select a value that is  
near a predefined value).
   * When the mouse pointer gets far from the slider (vertically),  
snap to the nearest predefined value on that side. So that it is easy  
to select a predefined value by first moving upward or downward, and  
then moving the mouse laterally (the Fitt's Law is far more efficient  
here, since the area of snapping is far bigger). This is clearly an  
"expert mode". If it is well done, an expert could select a  
predefined value without even looking at the slider. One  
supplementary advantage would be that mousing over a label would  
select the corresponding value.
   * When the handle is snapped to a position, make it visually clear  
by highlighting the label and displace the handle vertically in the  
direction of the label.
   * Add a label "don't change", and eventually a label "previous" if  
it is not one of the predefined values. So that the user can cancel  
the zoom selection and easily switch between some values.

I might do a mockup if it is not clear enough...

I see a drawback: if the slider is still in the status bar, the  
labels displayed below the slider could be outside the screen. So I  
suggest to put the slider in the toolbar, which is certainly a better  
place.

Another improvement would be to make the selected value indicator on  
the right a true text field, so that one can enter a precise value  
such as "126%". (Currently, clicking on it does nothing, but double-
clicking on it opens the "View > Zoom…" dialog).

Cheers,

Clément.
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