Brainstorm site for OO

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Brainstorm site for OO

shrini
Friends.

I am Shrinivasan from Chennai, India.

Today, I was taking with some friends who are MS Office lovers.

I bet them that OO will satisfy all their needs and let them have a test run.

Installed OO 3.0 and let them to do the normal things in writer and calc.

Fine. They can do their normal things. But they have to unlearn most things.

Their hands go on some short keys and mouse gestures. But they can't
find their favourite
button or function there.

Atlast they come up with a point that they can't come out of MS Office
because if its usability.

They advised me that OO should have to improve a lot in usability
compared to MS Office 2007.

:-(

My wish is to have a Brainstorm site for OO to get the inputs from the
users to get ideas.

Is it possible to have a site like this?

How can I help for this?

Thanks.



--
Regards,
T.Shrinivasan


My experiences with Linux are here
http://goinggnu.wordpress.com

For Free and Open Source Jobs
http://fossjobs.wordpress.com

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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

Christoph Noack-4
Hi Shrinivasan,

nice to meet you :-) And thank you for bringing up those questions -
including one which I haven't had the time to work on...

Am Donnerstag, den 02.07.2009, 00:19 +0530 schrieb Shrinivasan T:
[...]
> Today, I was taking with some friends who are MS Office lovers.
> I bet them that OO will satisfy all their needs and let them have a test run.
> Installed OO 3.0 and let them to do the normal things in writer and calc.
> Fine. They can do their normal things. But they have to unlearn most things.
> Their hands go on some short keys and mouse gestures. But they can't
> find their favourite button or function there.

All I can say is that we get this feedback very often. A few years ago,
Sun Microsystems collected feedback from important business customers
why they do not switch to OpenOffice.org or StarOffice. The result was
implemented in "Project Q" (OpenOffice.org 2.0).
http://development.openoffice.org/releases/q-concept.html

>From my point of view, some of the assumptions were wrong. For example,
some functionality which was very important for Microsoft Office users
has been implemented. But sometimes it just looked very similar - but it
didn't behave like the competitor. It didn't behave like that, because
the underlying software (concept) is different... This is one of the
basic laws of usability: Don't make it look alike, if it doesn't behave
identical.

> Atlast they come up with a point that they can't come out of MS Office
> because if its usability.

Concerning you bet. I still believe that many of your friends would be
happy with OpenOffice.org, but - at least a minimum - of relearning is
required. Then, they might explore some unique concepts of
OpenOffice.org (e.g. the excellent styles in Calc).

> They advised me that OO should have to improve a lot in usability
> compared to MS Office 2007.
>
> :-(

I'm really really happy that you didn't say: We need to be like
Microsoft Office 2007. You may have heard about Project Renaissance
which currently aims to improve the usability and usefulness a lot! Have
a look at our main wiki page...
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance

If you are interested in, just read on (since you also posted your
message on the other mailing list ux-ui, you seem to know the other
list...). Currently, the best thing would be to comment the prototypes
the Renaissance team is working on. Andreas proposed that here:
http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/what_s_on_vogue_in

> My wish is to have a Brainstorm site for OO to get the inputs from the
> users to get ideas.
>
> Is it possible to have a site like this?

Possible, yes. Since quite some time I try to focus on that task, but
anytime there are other tasks popping up :-( From my point of view, it
is still planned, but it might take a fews months until it is up and
running...
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Idea_Handling

> How can I help for this?
>
> Thanks.

Wow, thanks for your offer! What would you like to do at the moment? Are
you a specialist in something? Even if not, there are some things which
would be very helpful!

Currently I've planned to have a look at the usability of some
brainstorm software... Do you want to help?


Shrinivasan, have a nice evening!

Christoph


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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

shrini
Hi Christoph,

Thanks for the nice reply.

>
> All I can say is that we get this feedback very often. A few years ago,
> Sun Microsystems collected feedback from important business customers
> why they do not switch to OpenOffice.org or StarOffice. The result was
> implemented in "Project Q" (OpenOffice.org 2.0).
> http://development.openoffice.org/releases/q-concept.html


Nice to see that the UI concepts are being discussed.
I am unaware of these things.

>
> >From my point of view, some of the assumptions were wrong. For example,
> some functionality which was very important for Microsoft Office users
> has been implemented. But sometimes it just looked very similar - but it
> didn't behave like the competitor. It didn't behave like that, because
> the underlying software (concept) is different... This is one of the
> basic laws of usability: Don't make it look alike, if it doesn't behave
> identical.

Yes. there is no need have a replica of MS Office or other competitors.

OO is doing a great job with a great community.


> Concerning you bet. I still believe that many of your friends would be
> happy with OpenOffice.org, but - at least a minimum - of relearning is
> required. Then, they might explore some unique concepts of
> OpenOffice.org (e.g. the excellent styles in Calc).

Relearning - here is people struggle.
They stick to their own style of working and
they deny to come out of it.
:-(

This the sad part i face. Not only me.  All the FOSS evangelists
face the same problem.

Convincing people to unlearn their old software and relearn a new one
is the toughest part. Bu once, if people start to come to new world,
they begin to realise the power and efforts of the community.

> I'm really really happy that you didn't say: We need to be like
> Microsoft Office 2007. You may have heard about Project Renaissance
> which currently aims to improve the usability and usefulness a lot! Have
> a look at our main wiki page...
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance

So happy to see the Renaissance projects.
Told to friends about this project and showed the activities of OO community.
They showed a WOW. :-)

>
> If you are interested in, just read on (since you also posted your
> message on the other mailing list ux-ui, you seem to know the other
> list...). Currently, the best thing would be to comment the prototypes
> the Renaissance team is working on. Andreas proposed that here:
> http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/what_s_on_vogue_in

started to read on the blogs and project wikis.
Interesting to know that wonderful things are happening here.


>
> > My wish is to have a Brainstorm site for OO to get the inputs from the
> > users to get ideas.
> >
> > Is it possible to have a site like this?
>
> Possible, yes. Since quite some time I try to focus on that task, but
> anytime there are other tasks popping up :-( From my point of view, it
> is still planned, but it might take a fews months until it is up and
> running...
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Idea_Handling

Ubuntu Brainstorm like site is my choice as it is rocking already.

we need to setup a site like this as soon as possible so that we can get
direct input from the users around the globe.


>
> Wow, thanks for your offer! What would you like to do at the moment? Are
> you a specialist in something? Even if not, there are some things which
> would be very helpful!

I am a Linux administrator. Can do Ruby programming.

I am ready to learn something new if needed.

I hope, people can contribute without coding too.
So, I am willing to do anything to promote or spread about OO.

>
> Currently I've planned to have a look at the usability of some
> brainstorm software... Do you want to help?

Yes. sure, I can be with you.
Just guide me on the things to do.

I will do my best.

:-)


Thanks a lot.

So happy to be with a great community.


--
Regards,
T.Shrinivasan


My experiences with Linux are here
http://goinggnu.wordpress.com

For Free and Open Source Jobs
http://fossjobs.wordpress.com

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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

Elizabeth Matthis
Hi Shrinivasan,

It is wonderful to have you helping. I'm sure Christoph will find your
support very good, indeed. I like the Brainstorming tool idea, too.

Good to have you on the team now.

Kind regards,
Liz


Shrinivasan T wrote:

> Hi Christoph,
>
> Thanks for the nice reply.
>
>> All I can say is that we get this feedback very often. A few years ago,
>> Sun Microsystems collected feedback from important business customers
>> why they do not switch to OpenOffice.org or StarOffice. The result was
>> implemented in "Project Q" (OpenOffice.org 2.0).
>> http://development.openoffice.org/releases/q-concept.html
>
>
> Nice to see that the UI concepts are being discussed.
> I am unaware of these things.
>
>> >From my point of view, some of the assumptions were wrong. For example,
>> some functionality which was very important for Microsoft Office users
>> has been implemented. But sometimes it just looked very similar - but it
>> didn't behave like the competitor. It didn't behave like that, because
>> the underlying software (concept) is different... This is one of the
>> basic laws of usability: Don't make it look alike, if it doesn't behave
>> identical.
>
> Yes. there is no need have a replica of MS Office or other competitors.
>
> OO is doing a great job with a great community.
>
>
>> Concerning you bet. I still believe that many of your friends would be
>> happy with OpenOffice.org, but - at least a minimum - of relearning is
>> required. Then, they might explore some unique concepts of
>> OpenOffice.org (e.g. the excellent styles in Calc).
>
> Relearning - here is people struggle.
> They stick to their own style of working and
> they deny to come out of it.
> :-(
>
> This the sad part i face. Not only me.  All the FOSS evangelists
> face the same problem.
>
> Convincing people to unlearn their old software and relearn a new one
> is the toughest part. Bu once, if people start to come to new world,
> they begin to realise the power and efforts of the community.
>
>> I'm really really happy that you didn't say: We need to be like
>> Microsoft Office 2007. You may have heard about Project Renaissance
>> which currently aims to improve the usability and usefulness a lot! Have
>> a look at our main wiki page...
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance
>
> So happy to see the Renaissance projects.
> Told to friends about this project and showed the activities of OO community.
> They showed a WOW. :-)
>
>> If you are interested in, just read on (since you also posted your
>> message on the other mailing list ux-ui, you seem to know the other
>> list...). Currently, the best thing would be to comment the prototypes
>> the Renaissance team is working on. Andreas proposed that here:
>> http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/what_s_on_vogue_in
>
> started to read on the blogs and project wikis.
> Interesting to know that wonderful things are happening here.
>
>
>>> My wish is to have a Brainstorm site for OO to get the inputs from the
>>> users to get ideas.
>>>
>>> Is it possible to have a site like this?
>> Possible, yes. Since quite some time I try to focus on that task, but
>> anytime there are other tasks popping up :-( From my point of view, it
>> is still planned, but it might take a fews months until it is up and
>> running...
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Idea_Handling
>
> Ubuntu Brainstorm like site is my choice as it is rocking already.
>
> we need to setup a site like this as soon as possible so that we can get
> direct input from the users around the globe.
>
>
>> Wow, thanks for your offer! What would you like to do at the moment? Are
>> you a specialist in something? Even if not, there are some things which
>> would be very helpful!
>
> I am a Linux administrator. Can do Ruby programming.
>
> I am ready to learn something new if needed.
>
> I hope, people can contribute without coding too.
> So, I am willing to do anything to promote or spread about OO.
>
>> Currently I've planned to have a look at the usability of some
>> brainstorm software... Do you want to help?
>
> Yes. sure, I can be with you.
> Just guide me on the things to do.
>
> I will do my best.
>
> :-)
>
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> So happy to be with a great community.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> T.Shrinivasan
>
>
> My experiences with Linux are here
> http://goinggnu.wordpress.com
>
> For Free and Open Source Jobs
> http://fossjobs.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>

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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

shrini
Hi Liz,

>
> It is wonderful to have you helping. I'm sure Christoph will find your
> support very good, indeed. I like the Brainstorming tool idea, too.
>
> Good to have you on the team now.
>

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Happy Holidays ;-)

--
Regards,
T.Shrinivasan


My experiences with Linux are here
http://goinggnu.wordpress.com

For Free and Open Source Jobs
http://fossjobs.wordpress.com

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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

shrini
In reply to this post by Christoph Noack-4
Hi Christoph,


> Wow, thanks for your offer! What would you like to do at the moment? Are
> you a specialist in something? Even if not, there are some things which
> would be very helpful!
>
> Currently I've planned to have a look at the usability of some
> brainstorm software... Do you want to help?

How can I help for choosing the brainstorm app?

Thanks.

--
Regards,
T.Shrinivasan


My experiences with Linux are here
http://goinggnu.wordpress.com

For Free and Open Source Jobs
http://fossjobs.wordpress.com

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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

Christoph Noack-4
In reply to this post by shrini
Hi again,

thanks for your nice reply. I'm really sorry that I'm a bit lazy at the
moment, but I currently invest much time into the printer dialog (which
has some deadline).

Am Freitag, den 03.07.2009, 09:33 +0530 schrieb Shrinivasan T:
> Hi Christoph,
[...]

> > Concerning you bet. I still believe that many of your friends would be
> > happy with OpenOffice.org, but - at least a minimum - of relearning is
> > required. Then, they might explore some unique concepts of
> > OpenOffice.org (e.g. the excellent styles in Calc).
>
> Relearning - here is people struggle.
> They stick to their own style of working and
> they deny to come out of it.
> :-(
>
> This the sad part i face. Not only me.  All the FOSS evangelists
> face the same problem.
>
> Convincing people to unlearn their old software and relearn a new one
> is the toughest part. Bu once, if people start to come to new world,
> they begin to realise the power and efforts of the community.

Either they come it touch with the community and their great support, or
(my personal hope) we can also provide the better software... In the
last years I had to agree, that Microsoft (thinking of such a big
company) does its job pretty well.

[...]

> > > My wish is to have a Brainstorm site for OO to get the inputs from the
> > > users to get ideas.
> > >
> > > Is it possible to have a site like this?
> >
> > Possible, yes. Since quite some time I try to focus on that task, but
> > anytime there are other tasks popping up :-( From my point of view, it
> > is still planned, but it might take a fews months until it is up and
> > running...
> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Idea_Handling
>
> Ubuntu Brainstorm like site is my choice as it is rocking already.
>
> we need to setup a site like this as soon as possible so that we can get
> direct input from the users around the globe.

This would be my personal hope, too. But I still see some people
hesitating because they are unsure what kinds of ideas are delivered or
whether these ideas match with the ones by the main contributors. But
that should not hinder us to collect the ideas of the community... :-)

> > Wow, thanks for your offer! What would you like to do at the moment? Are
> > you a specialist in something? Even if not, there are some things which
> > would be very helpful!
>
> I am a Linux administrator. Can do Ruby programming.
>
> I am ready to learn something new if needed.
>
> I hope, people can contribute without coding too.
> So, I am willing to do anything to promote or spread about OO.

Thank you so much!

> > Currently I've planned to have a look at the usability of some
> > brainstorm software... Do you want to help?
>
> Yes. sure, I can be with you.
> Just guide me on the things to do.
>
> I will do my best.
>
> :-)

As I said before, I would like to know what is good and what could be
improved withing Ubuntu Brainstorm or IdeaTorrent. Although I spent some
several evenings with Ideatorrent, I wasn't able to summarize my
impressions until now. Maybe - although you said you like Ubuntu
Brainstorm very much - you have some ideas what still could be improved?
Little things or the general concept? Or did your friends encounter any
usability issues with it? A first step could be to collect these things,
that might hinder our community to provide their ideas...


> My experiences with Linux are here
> http://goinggnu.wordpress.com

Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts! And of course thank you very much
for your kind offer!

Christoph


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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

shrini
Hi,

>
> thanks for your nice reply. I'm really sorry that I'm a bit lazy at the
> moment, but I currently invest much time into the printer dialog (which
> has some deadline).

It okey.

Priority Issues always take our time. :-)

> As I said before, I would like to know what is good and what could be
> improved withing Ubuntu Brainstorm or IdeaTorrent. Although I spent some
> several evenings with Ideatorrent, I wasn't able to summarize my
> impressions until now. Maybe - although you said you like Ubuntu
> Brainstorm very much - you have some ideas what still could be improved?
> Little things or the general concept? Or did your friends encounter any
> usability issues with it? A first step could be to collect these things,
> that might hinder our community to provide their ideas...


Great.

Ubuntu brainstorm is rocking.

My friends are satisfied with the OO on its features.
But they feel somewhat uneasy with OO for its usability and its new
learning curve.

Even MS office 2007 also needs re-learning as it has a new UI.

People will learn anything if it is eye catching, new and innovative.

Let me create a new group in goolgle groups to collect the feedback
from my friends.

Will update the feedback as people start to post.

Thanks.





--
Regards,
T.Shrinivasan


My experiences with Linux are here
http://goinggnu.wordpress.com

For Free and Open Source Jobs
http://fossjobs.wordpress.com

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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

Rodrigo Carvalho
Hello, everybody

I've been missed lately because I'm working a lot. But this discussion
called my attention and I agree with a brainstorm site for OOo. I vote for
IdeaTorrent (that is the tool used by Ubuntu Brainstorm) and I think we
could implement this very fast. We just need a server to install it and the
details we adjust later.

As it is a quick task, I can help. Please, contact me directly when we are
ready to start.

Best regards.
--
Rodrigo

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 07:23, Shrinivasan T <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> >
> > thanks for your nice reply. I'm really sorry that I'm a bit lazy at the
> > moment, but I currently invest much time into the printer dialog (which
> > has some deadline).
>
> It okey.
>
> Priority Issues always take our time. :-)
>
> > As I said before, I would like to know what is good and what could be
> > improved withing Ubuntu Brainstorm or IdeaTorrent. Although I spent some
> > several evenings with Ideatorrent, I wasn't able to summarize my
> > impressions until now. Maybe - although you said you like Ubuntu
> > Brainstorm very much - you have some ideas what still could be improved?
> > Little things or the general concept? Or did your friends encounter any
> > usability issues with it? A first step could be to collect these things,
> > that might hinder our community to provide their ideas...
>
>
> Great.
>
> Ubuntu brainstorm is rocking.
>
> My friends are satisfied with the OO on its features.
> But they feel somewhat uneasy with OO for its usability and its new
> learning curve.
>
> Even MS office 2007 also needs re-learning as it has a new UI.
>
> People will learn anything if it is eye catching, new and innovative.
>
> Let me create a new group in goolgle groups to collect the feedback
> from my friends.
>
> Will update the feedback as people start to post.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> T.Shrinivasan
>
>
> My experiences with Linux are here
> http://goinggnu.wordpress.com
>
> For Free and Open Source Jobs
> http://fossjobs.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

shrini
Thanks Rodrigo,

Waiting curiously for the site.

Regards,
Shrinivasan

2009/7/15 Rodrigo Carvalho Silva <[hidden email]>:

> Hello, everybody
>
> I've been missed lately because I'm working a lot. But this discussion
> called my attention and I agree with a brainstorm site for OOo. I vote for
> IdeaTorrent (that is the tool used by Ubuntu Brainstorm) and I think we
> could implement this very fast. We just need a server to install it and the
> details we adjust later.
>
> As it is a quick task, I can help. Please, contact me directly when we are
> ready to start.
>
> Best regards.
> --
> Rodrigo
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 07:23, Shrinivasan T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> >
>> > thanks for your nice reply. I'm really sorry that I'm a bit lazy at the
>> > moment, but I currently invest much time into the printer dialog (which
>> > has some deadline).
>>
>> It okey.
>>
>> Priority Issues always take our time. :-)
>>
>> > As I said before, I would like to know what is good and what could be
>> > improved withing Ubuntu Brainstorm or IdeaTorrent. Although I spent some
>> > several evenings with Ideatorrent, I wasn't able to summarize my
>> > impressions until now. Maybe - although you said you like Ubuntu
>> > Brainstorm very much - you have some ideas what still could be improved?
>> > Little things or the general concept? Or did your friends encounter any
>> > usability issues with it? A first step could be to collect these things,
>> > that might hinder our community to provide their ideas...
>>
>>
>> Great.
>>
>> Ubuntu brainstorm is rocking.
>>
>> My friends are satisfied with the OO on its features.
>> But they feel somewhat uneasy with OO for its usability and its new
>> learning curve.
>>
>> Even MS office 2007 also needs re-learning as it has a new UI.
>>
>> People will learn anything if it is eye catching, new and innovative.
>>
>> Let me create a new group in goolgle groups to collect the feedback
>> from my friends.
>>
>> Will update the feedback as people start to post.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> T.Shrinivasan
>>
>>
>> My experiences with Linux are here
>> http://goinggnu.wordpress.com
>>
>> For Free and Open Source Jobs
>> http://fossjobs.wordpress.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>



--
Regards,
T.Shrinivasan


My experiences with Linux are here
http://goinggnu.wordpress.com

For Free and Open Source Jobs
http://fossjobs.wordpress.com

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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

Rodrigo Carvalho
Thanks, Shrinivasan. As soon as I get the "green light" from Sun members,
I'll let you all know. I'll ask you help if I need some :)

Regards!
--
Rodrigo

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 13:20, Shrinivasan T <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Rodrigo,
>
> Waiting curiously for the site.
>
> Regards,
> Shrinivasan
>
> 2009/7/15 Rodrigo Carvalho Silva <[hidden email]>:
> > Hello, everybody
> >
> > I've been missed lately because I'm working a lot. But this discussion
> > called my attention and I agree with a brainstorm site for OOo. I vote
> for
> > IdeaTorrent (that is the tool used by Ubuntu Brainstorm) and I think we
> > could implement this very fast. We just need a server to install it and
> the
> > details we adjust later.
> >
> > As it is a quick task, I can help. Please, contact me directly when we
> are
> > ready to start.
> >
> > Best regards.
> > --
> > Rodrigo
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 07:23, Shrinivasan T <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> >
> >> > thanks for your nice reply. I'm really sorry that I'm a bit lazy at
> the
> >> > moment, but I currently invest much time into the printer dialog
> (which
> >> > has some deadline).
> >>
> >> It okey.
> >>
> >> Priority Issues always take our time. :-)
> >>
> >> > As I said before, I would like to know what is good and what could be
> >> > improved withing Ubuntu Brainstorm or IdeaTorrent. Although I spent
> some
> >> > several evenings with Ideatorrent, I wasn't able to summarize my
> >> > impressions until now. Maybe - although you said you like Ubuntu
> >> > Brainstorm very much - you have some ideas what still could be
> improved?
> >> > Little things or the general concept? Or did your friends encounter
> any
> >> > usability issues with it? A first step could be to collect these
> things,
> >> > that might hinder our community to provide their ideas...
> >>
> >>
> >> Great.
> >>
> >> Ubuntu brainstorm is rocking.
> >>
> >> My friends are satisfied with the OO on its features.
> >> But they feel somewhat uneasy with OO for its usability and its new
> >> learning curve.
> >>
> >> Even MS office 2007 also needs re-learning as it has a new UI.
> >>
> >> People will learn anything if it is eye catching, new and innovative.
> >>
> >> Let me create a new group in goolgle groups to collect the feedback
> >> from my friends.
> >>
> >> Will update the feedback as people start to post.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >> T.Shrinivasan
> >>
> >>
> >> My experiences with Linux are here
> >> http://goinggnu.wordpress.com
> >>
> >> For Free and Open Source Jobs
> >> http://fossjobs.wordpress.com
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> T.Shrinivasan
>
>
> My experiences with Linux are here
> http://goinggnu.wordpress.com
>
> For Free and Open Source Jobs
> http://fossjobs.wordpress.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

Christoph Noack-4
Hi Rodrigo, hi Shrinivsan,

cool that you both are interested :-) And I think it would be helpful to
provide some information about the current state.

Rodrigo, I'm not sure if you aware of the OOo Idea Handling page at [1],
which still waits for some more input by me ;-) There, we also discussed
IdeaTorrent which seems to be the best choice for a project like
OpenOffice.org.

But, IdeaTorrent (and the customized Ubuntu Brainstorm) show that there
are some issues which might have impact on the user experience and the
expectations of those who require a very low hurdle to provide ideas.
For example, the combination of tags, main categories and the
corresponding search has some drawbacks. I'll add the text I originally
sent to the developer Nicolas in March [2].

Nicolas is a very cool guy, he seems to be very interested in our
feedback. That also means that we (or better Ivan, who is CCed)
established a contact to him. Earlier this year, Ivan offered some help
to adapt the visual appearance to match the rest of the OpenOffice.org
sites. He also created the great mockup at [1].

Finally, I asked several people at Sun about their opinion. The result:
Most likely, we will get support to run IdeaTorrent on their servers,
but we have to fulfill several requirements. For example, we have to
show the clear potential of IdeaTorrent, to provide (reliable) support
by the community for at least several months and we are asked to
evaluate it first including a written statement.

To provide that, I asked the German community for their help, since they
have some servers that (after being re-installed - thanks to André and
Florian) match the criteria to run IdeaTorrent. For the moment, this
solution provides a better flexibility to test the whole environment.
The downside: We are bound to rather strict German law. And - which is
fully understandable - the German community members ask us to "sign" a
kind of agreement.

What does that mean? We prepared some steps to integrate IdeaTorrent
into the world of OOo, but - at least for me - this will require some
more steps. There are even some organizational questions to be answered,
e.g. how IdeaTorrent entries relate to the IssueTracker RFEs etc. We
need moderators for the ideas to e.g. avoid copyright infringement. I'm
sure that the whole thing is much more than providing the software -
Ubuntu for example integrated it tightly in their development process.
It really requires the commitment of the other teams. But basically
until now, I am the one who should finally start the usability
evaluation [3]... after we got the new printing dialog out :-)

I don't know if this helps, but maybe you have a better idea what the
current status is. If we continue the way proposed here, do you have
some ideas or wishes how to participate? Any comments? Do you think we
can wait for some weeks to finish the evaluation... Please bug me!

Oh, it's already so late. So I wish you a nice evening,

Christoph


[1]
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Idea_Handling

[2] -----------------------------------------------------------------
An example is the very similar behavior of the categories and the tags
(put together quickly, later it might be better explained):
      * Categories:
              * Categories appear to be multi-dimensional, if needed. In
                Ubuntu Brainstorm for example, there are both "Global
                Categories" and "Projects".
              * But, the description what the user has selected
                disappears, once the entry has been selected. (Example:
                What was Amaya?)
              * If an entry of "Global Categories" is selected, then the
                list gets filtered as expected.
              * If an entry of "Projects" is selected, then the
                drop-down of "Global Categories" disappears. And that
                even happens, if there was something selected in "Global
                Categories".
                      * Weird, since "global" suggests to be a more
                        general... And how to change it now to e.g.
                        "Documentation"? This requires to click on
                        "All" (to reset the filter) and then select it
                        in "Global Categories". This appears to be more
                        complex than necessary.
                      * It's impossible to select ideas related to
                        "usability" in "OpenOffice.org Text Processor" -
                        although these are "orthogonal" search criteria.
              * If the user selects e.g. the group "Software" in
                "Projects", nothing happens but closing the drop-down.
                It seems that this only groups other entries - this is
                different to the usual "tree based category" model of
                other websites.
              * A selection can not be undone in the same drop-down.
                Only "all" resets the filters (except the search) and
                restores the availability of all drop-down fields. (The
                issue is the representation on the screen, especially
                since the normal IdeaTorrent only uses one category -
                then this behavior is strange, since the user does not
                get any clue what 'all' stands for.)
              * Selecting an idea entry in the list below, does not
                alter the status of the categories. (Which is okay, but
                different to the tags).
              * The categories are shown directly below the headline of
                each idea. Users can click on project categories to
                filter; the general categories are inactive (no
                hyperlinks). This leads to missing consistency.
              * Conclusion: The categories appear to be something like
                pre-defined tags - but only one can be active at a time.
                The user interface behaves rather unpredictable.
      * Tags
              * A tag can be selected by clicking on it - it then gets
                searched (although the search field changes it's
                appearance being a filter).
              * To see the tags, you need to open an idea - this is
                different to the Projects which are directly visible in
                the lists.
              * Searching for tags is a bit hard, as there does not seem
                to be a complete list of tags in the system.
                Additionally, it would really help to have a kind of
                auto-completion in the tags search field to avoid typos
                (e.g. entering 'u' might show "unstable, usability, user
                experience, ...")
              * By the way, searching for tags is hidden in the
                "advanced search". Usually users do not make
                associations between "search" and "tags".
              * If a view is filtered with tags, it gets reset by
                selecting an idea entry. Are there technical
                limitations? I assume that most people expect to keep
                the filter until it is manually removed.
              * To see all the entries, users have to click on
                "Clear" (filter in use).
              * Conclusion: Basic tag capabilities are available, but
                hard to discover and to use.

Each of the approaches has it's advantages, but at the moment none of
them realizes the full potential (from the functionality and usability
point-of-view). Instead, the two seem to implement rather similar
behavior which might confuse users and lead to inconsistent meta-data.
For example, I observed that people use both the category and the tag to
mark up the same thing, e.g. Gnome.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[3]
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Idea_Handling/IdeaTorrent


Am Donnerstag, den 16.07.2009, 18:37 -0300 schrieb Rodrigo Carvalho
Silva:

> Thanks, Shrinivasan. As soon as I get the "green light" from Sun members,
> I'll let you all know. I'll ask you help if I need some :)
>
> Regards!
> --
> Rodrigo
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 13:20, Shrinivasan T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Rodrigo,
> >
> > Waiting curiously for the site.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Shrinivasan
> >
> > 2009/7/15 Rodrigo Carvalho Silva <[hidden email]>:
> > > Hello, everybody
> > >
> > > I've been missed lately because I'm working a lot. But this discussion
> > > called my attention and I agree with a brainstorm site for OOo. I vote
> > for
> > > IdeaTorrent (that is the tool used by Ubuntu Brainstorm) and I think we
> > > could implement this very fast. We just need a server to install it and
> > the
> > > details we adjust later.
> > >
> > > As it is a quick task, I can help. Please, contact me directly when we
> > are
> > > ready to start.
> > >
> > > Best regards.
> > > --
> > > Rodrigo
[...]


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Re: Brainstorm site for OO

Ivan M
Hi Christoph, Rodrigo, Shrinivasan, all,

There's not much I can currently add that Christoph hasn't already
explained in his emails, other than that I, too, would love to see an
OOo IdeaTorrent site. However, as Christoph hinted, it's not as easy
as installing Drupal + IdeaTorrent on a server (though I wish it was
:P) - integration with IssueZilla will need some work, as will the
customization to fit OOo's needs (and in order to get approval from
Sun, I would imagine...)

Christoph, please keep us updated with your progress (and if anyone
can help with the usability evaluation, please say so - I'm not an
expert in this area!), and all the best for the printer dialog (I like
the logos you come up for these UX projects!)

Regards,
Ivan.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Christoph Noack<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Rodrigo, hi Shrinivsan,
>
> cool that you both are interested :-) And I think it would be helpful to
> provide some information about the current state.
>
> Rodrigo, I'm not sure if you aware of the OOo Idea Handling page at [1],
> which still waits for some more input by me ;-) There, we also discussed
> IdeaTorrent which seems to be the best choice for a project like
> OpenOffice.org.
>
> But, IdeaTorrent (and the customized Ubuntu Brainstorm) show that there
> are some issues which might have impact on the user experience and the
> expectations of those who require a very low hurdle to provide ideas.
> For example, the combination of tags, main categories and the
> corresponding search has some drawbacks. I'll add the text I originally
> sent to the developer Nicolas in March [2].
>
> Nicolas is a very cool guy, he seems to be very interested in our
> feedback. That also means that we (or better Ivan, who is CCed)
> established a contact to him. Earlier this year, Ivan offered some help
> to adapt the visual appearance to match the rest of the OpenOffice.org
> sites. He also created the great mockup at [1].
>
> Finally, I asked several people at Sun about their opinion. The result:
> Most likely, we will get support to run IdeaTorrent on their servers,
> but we have to fulfill several requirements. For example, we have to
> show the clear potential of IdeaTorrent, to provide (reliable) support
> by the community for at least several months and we are asked to
> evaluate it first including a written statement.
>
> To provide that, I asked the German community for their help, since they
> have some servers that (after being re-installed - thanks to André and
> Florian) match the criteria to run IdeaTorrent. For the moment, this
> solution provides a better flexibility to test the whole environment.
> The downside: We are bound to rather strict German law. And - which is
> fully understandable - the German community members ask us to "sign" a
> kind of agreement.
>
> What does that mean? We prepared some steps to integrate IdeaTorrent
> into the world of OOo, but - at least for me - this will require some
> more steps. There are even some organizational questions to be answered,
> e.g. how IdeaTorrent entries relate to the IssueTracker RFEs etc. We
> need moderators for the ideas to e.g. avoid copyright infringement. I'm
> sure that the whole thing is much more than providing the software -
> Ubuntu for example integrated it tightly in their development process.
> It really requires the commitment of the other teams. But basically
> until now, I am the one who should finally start the usability
> evaluation [3]... after we got the new printing dialog out :-)
>
> I don't know if this helps, but maybe you have a better idea what the
> current status is. If we continue the way proposed here, do you have
> some ideas or wishes how to participate? Any comments? Do you think we
> can wait for some weeks to finish the evaluation... Please bug me!
>
> Oh, it's already so late. So I wish you a nice evening,
>
> Christoph
>
>
> [1]
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Idea_Handling
>
> [2] -----------------------------------------------------------------
> An example is the very similar behavior of the categories and the tags
> (put together quickly, later it might be better explained):
>      * Categories:
>              * Categories appear to be multi-dimensional, if needed. In
>                Ubuntu Brainstorm for example, there are both "Global
>                Categories" and "Projects".
>              * But, the description what the user has selected
>                disappears, once the entry has been selected. (Example:
>                What was Amaya?)
>              * If an entry of "Global Categories" is selected, then the
>                list gets filtered as expected.
>              * If an entry of "Projects" is selected, then the
>                drop-down of "Global Categories" disappears. And that
>                even happens, if there was something selected in "Global
>                Categories".
>                      * Weird, since "global" suggests to be a more
>                        general... And how to change it now to e.g.
>                        "Documentation"? This requires to click on
>                        "All" (to reset the filter) and then select it
>                        in "Global Categories". This appears to be more
>                        complex than necessary.
>                      * It's impossible to select ideas related to
>                        "usability" in "OpenOffice.org Text Processor" -
>                        although these are "orthogonal" search criteria.
>              * If the user selects e.g. the group "Software" in
>                "Projects", nothing happens but closing the drop-down.
>                It seems that this only groups other entries - this is
>                different to the usual "tree based category" model of
>                other websites.
>              * A selection can not be undone in the same drop-down.
>                Only "all" resets the filters (except the search) and
>                restores the availability of all drop-down fields. (The
>                issue is the representation on the screen, especially
>                since the normal IdeaTorrent only uses one category -
>                then this behavior is strange, since the user does not
>                get any clue what 'all' stands for.)
>              * Selecting an idea entry in the list below, does not
>                alter the status of the categories. (Which is okay, but
>                different to the tags).
>              * The categories are shown directly below the headline of
>                each idea. Users can click on project categories to
>                filter; the general categories are inactive (no
>                hyperlinks). This leads to missing consistency.
>              * Conclusion: The categories appear to be something like
>                pre-defined tags - but only one can be active at a time.
>                The user interface behaves rather unpredictable.
>      * Tags
>              * A tag can be selected by clicking on it - it then gets
>                searched (although the search field changes it's
>                appearance being a filter).
>              * To see the tags, you need to open an idea - this is
>                different to the Projects which are directly visible in
>                the lists.
>              * Searching for tags is a bit hard, as there does not seem
>                to be a complete list of tags in the system.
>                Additionally, it would really help to have a kind of
>                auto-completion in the tags search field to avoid typos
>                (e.g. entering 'u' might show "unstable, usability, user
>                experience, ...")
>              * By the way, searching for tags is hidden in the
>                "advanced search". Usually users do not make
>                associations between "search" and "tags".
>              * If a view is filtered with tags, it gets reset by
>                selecting an idea entry. Are there technical
>                limitations? I assume that most people expect to keep
>                the filter until it is manually removed.
>              * To see all the entries, users have to click on
>                "Clear" (filter in use).
>              * Conclusion: Basic tag capabilities are available, but
>                hard to discover and to use.
>
> Each of the approaches has it's advantages, but at the moment none of
> them realizes the full potential (from the functionality and usability
> point-of-view). Instead, the two seem to implement rather similar
> behavior which might confuse users and lead to inconsistent meta-data.
> For example, I observed that people use both the category and the tag to
> mark up the same thing, e.g. Gnome.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> [3]
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Idea_Handling/IdeaTorrent
>
>
> Am Donnerstag, den 16.07.2009, 18:37 -0300 schrieb Rodrigo Carvalho
> Silva:
>> Thanks, Shrinivasan. As soon as I get the "green light" from Sun members,
>> I'll let you all know. I'll ask you help if I need some :)
>>
>> Regards!
>> --
>> Rodrigo
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 13:20, Shrinivasan T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks Rodrigo,
>> >
>> > Waiting curiously for the site.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Shrinivasan
>> >
>> > 2009/7/15 Rodrigo Carvalho Silva <[hidden email]>:
>> > > Hello, everybody
>> > >
>> > > I've been missed lately because I'm working a lot. But this discussion
>> > > called my attention and I agree with a brainstorm site for OOo. I vote
>> > for
>> > > IdeaTorrent (that is the tool used by Ubuntu Brainstorm) and I think we
>> > > could implement this very fast. We just need a server to install it and
>> > the
>> > > details we adjust later.
>> > >
>> > > As it is a quick task, I can help. Please, contact me directly when we
>> > are
>> > > ready to start.
>> > >
>> > > Best regards.
>> > > --
>> > > Rodrigo
> [...]
>
>

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Brainstorm site for OpenOffice.org (idea handling): Vilfredo, an alternative to IdeaTorrent

Graham Perrin
Administrator
Reading this thread <http://n2.nabble.com/-tp3191045p3191045.html> alongside <http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Idea_Handling/IdeaTorrent> and <http://n2.nabble.com/-tp2118020p2118020.html>

On the okfn-discuss list, a suggestion to use IdeaTorrent (for an Open Knowledge Foundation project incubator) led to discussion of Vilfredo.

The topic that originated as <http://old.nabble.com/-to26551834.html> has been steered to a different list. <http://n3.nabble.com/-tp69231p69231.html> or <http://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/okfn-help/2009-December/000481.html> if you want to follow the topic on okfn-help.